DADDYKEV45 (August 3, 2008 at 11:53 pm)

this is an old video cause they already have all their city buses running on hydrogen and have hydrogen stations running... too bad how rich the USA is that the politicians are bought off we could change over in less than a year if we really wanted to

spanishaustralian (July 17, 2008 at 12:45 pm)

"the new world order" is responsible.they wont let us have the cheap energy.learn about the "new world order" for F@#K sakes.

sentientmachine11 (July 5, 2008 at 1:25 am)

The documentary is called Scientific American Frontiers. You can stream the episode "Hydrogen Hopes" from the PBS website. However I must make a correction after watching it again. The hydrogen stations aren't powered by solar, my bad. I must have got up to get a drink during the transition ;). Not a bad idea though.

milofonbil (June 22, 2008 at 8:49 pm)

The real problem with vehicles like the BMW is that they must rely on the carnot cycle. They are inherently inefficient. Electric motors are much more efficient than internal combustion engines. Also, batteries are quite efficient. Why not go with electric cars. Hydrogen is really not that efficient for many reasons.Electrolysis is horribly inefficient. It yields a lot of heat to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water. Fuel cells are much more promising. However, they are vy expensive

lastnymleft (June 22, 2008 at 7:56 pm)

"For a nascent market like hydrogen, further segmentation may be its death blow"Perhaps dual-fuel vehicles, like BMW are pursuing, are the way to go, to facilitate the roll-out of the network, and transition to a hydrogen system."My bad, it's actually CH4 + H2O = 3H2 + CO. The carbon monoxide gets released into the atmosphere. The reaction creates heat which is also just heating the atmosphere"Electrolyzing H2 from water using electricity from renewables, as per Iceland, seems the go then

milofonbil (June 22, 2008 at 7:47 pm)

GSM vs CDMA is not the point. US used AMPS before TDMA, GSM and CDMA. The point is that different incompatible standards can be used to segment a market to eliminate competition, hold a market share and thereby prevent market churn. For a nascent market like hydrogen, further segmentation may be its death blow.My bad, it's actually CH4 + H2O = 3H2 + CO. The carbon monoxide gets released into the atmosphere. The reaction creates heat which is also just heating the atmosphere.

lastnymleft (June 22, 2008 at 6:58 pm)

Well, I'm not sure CDMA/GSM is a good example for your case. CDMA should have been stillborn. It was a huge waste of money rolling out that parallel network. GSM was the world standard, and CDMA only got a foothold in the US for nationalistic reasons.The rolling out of a hydrogen refilling network is THE hurdle preventing acceptance. It's the chicken and egg problem. Splitting the technology now will make it worse.CH4 reformation is controlled so I presume C02 is captured and geosequestered.

milofonbil (June 22, 2008 at 2:53 pm)

It's difficult to have competing technologies in some cases. But in other cases, it serves to segment the market. For example in the cellular industry Verizon and Sprint use CDMA and AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM. The rest are small carriers or simply MVNO's, or re-branding of the same service. In the same way, certain brands of cars would be limited to certain hydrogen suppliers.What bothers me the most about H2 is how oil companies make it from methane (natural gas): CH4 + H2O = 3H2 + CO2

lastnymleft (June 22, 2008 at 2:24 am)

Hmm. Just thinking about this a bit more... Having two competing fuel systems, liquid, and gaseous, will mean two different distribution and dispensing methodologies. I hope that the difference is only going to be a subtle, Can Co-exist, gasoline vs diesel issue, and not a Only One Can Survive, VHS vs BetaMax / BlueRay vs HD-DVD issue.

lastnymleft (June 22, 2008 at 1:33 am)

"are the tanks in hydrogen cars cryogenic or super high pressure?"Depends which car, and which type of hydrogen is used: gaseous or liquid. BMW use liquid hydrogen so use a cryogenic tank. Other makers use gaseous hydrogen so use high-pressure carbon-fiber tanks"It seems to me like it takes a lot of energy to liquefy hydrogen"True. You can go the extreme pressure route, but cooling is more efficient. The key to all hydrogen production is having a renewable energy in the production process