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voiceofconcience (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
consciousness= spirit/soul science..
prhughes0 (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
patterns: "similarity/difference" measurements with "importance/irrelevance", "happiness/unhappiness" and "success/failure" tags.zombies: most everyone appears to act as if they were "conscious", as i clearly am and appear (to me) to act. So far, i have seen no evidence of a test or way of proving "consciousness", even though experiencing clearly IS. One presumes that it must be for others also.When silicon-brained devices behave as if they were "conscious", who cares if they are?p
plenipotentiarius (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
At the moment? For the last 50 years and for the next and perhaps forever it is incapable of language. In any case there are 6 billion minds out there, why let them waste away while pouring millions into one as dumb as a computer's.We don't, our brains don't compute, they think and usually in language, computers prove incapable of that. As usual another person using the "myth of science" to predict its future success. Its myth is based on past successes which is no guide to its future.
LordImmolation (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
Firstly yes, at the moment language (particularly pragmatics, humour, irony etc) is difficult but progress is being made.Big Blue didn't have a history, it just "mindlessly" analysed all possible future board positions and used a heuristic to find the optimal goal. This is not how we do AI anymore. AI has the ability to learn, and it's behaviour is implicit ANNs, which compute information in a similar way to our brains.
LordImmolation (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
Like I said I agree with much of it. But I have some problems, the more I read it the more problems I see. I thought the seeing subjective experience as a procedure between object and subject was good...but the general premise is completely absurd...I see it now more than ever, and will hopefully discuss it at some length.
plenipotentiarius (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
Well done to get a degree, and so you know well about computers' inability with language. I hadn't said you didn't know, I said "if"; you must have other reasons to think that the mind is a computer. As to chess I was referring to Kasparov's game with big blue. I have not seen any offer by a computer company to challenge the masters, a genuine challenge would be to write a program that, like a chess master, could not be re-programmed by 100s of people every time it loses & had a history.
LordImmolation (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
"If he saw how pitiful computers are"Actually I have just finished a degree in artificial intelligence. No offence taken, but I know alot about the current state of AI. And look, chess is a very very easy problem domain to solve, you just need a big enough computer and perform a "look ahead" heuristic. Other things are alot more difficult but progress is beginning to be made on many issues once thought untouchable by machine.
plenipotentiarius (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
Well about Einstein's other multifarious views perhaps even commonplaces such as that about imagination is not as vitally true as a man admitting about himself that he regrets all the work he has done in physics and would prefer if he'd instead become a watchmaker. They say wisdom only comes with age!The Kasparov game was not a genuine chess match since no history of play was provided by IBM, in effect it was 100 programmers round the clock & on coffee versus one man.
zezt (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
And didn't Einstein say: Imagination is more important than knowledge'...?Can that big old IBM computer imagine?I wonder? ;) ;)
plenipotentiarius (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)
Exactly, it is not unethical per se, but it is an old story...Einstein saw this too late when he said that if he knew how his theories went to make atom bombs he'd prefer if he'd become a watchmaker and not a physicist! It'll fail so more likely would be the application of crude and faulty discoveries as if they were true by similarly lopsided politics/economics (cf, nazi physiognomists) or its exclusive use as "cosmetic" enhancement, perhaps siphoning off poor peoples' neurons (I joke!). |
